Toasty Flannel

The Official Tumblr where I officially post random things. Officially.

Anonymous asked: Hello! I just wanted to say that you changed my mind about Jane. I mean, I disagreed a bit with what you said about Kenny, but for the most part, you're right. So yeah. Thanks lol.

That’s very nice to hear, anonymous. A lot of people aren’t mature enough to change their mind in the face of what might be more logical opposition (I know I sound super pretentious writing that, but it’s true).

I actually don’t want it to seem like I’m crapping all over Kenny, so might I ask what you disagreed with me about? We don’t have to get into it, I’m just curious.

Typos all up in my TWDG related post. I’m a genius.

thedespisedfemaleantagonist asked: I just want to applaud you for your brilliant defense of Jane. I've seen barely anything other than blind hatred of her in this fandom, and it's about to drive me up the wall, especially considering that everyone seems willing to give Kenny a pass for everything he did. So, bravo. Seriously.

Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. I’m somewhat surprised to see this whole “fuck jane” sentiment amongst people who claim that none of the characters make sense or are impractical. Jane’s one of the most practical and reliable characters in the series, but when people got faced with someone like her in the game, suddenly they’re not so quick to applaud her particular brand of practicality. 

Anyway, I won’t start ranting on your ask. I actually still have a rebuttal or two in Jane’s defense elsewhere. And maybe I can start making people mad about other games. Maybe we can talk about why letting Ben die is a shitty thing to do, or why Joel’s actions at the climax of TLOU are extremely selfish (the murder and lying at the expense of all humanity, you know).

So again, and finally, thank you. I’ll be following.

The TWDG fandom has been looking for a reason to hate Jane ever since she showed up. Now I guess they have one that’s decent enough.

http://thispumpkin.tumblr.com/post/95883306716/toastyflannel-thispumpkin-toastyflannel

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Let me start a fire and say whoever decided not to shoot Kenny is an idiot.

jane had an injured leg: she was useless.

Having an injured leg is far journey from useless. What good is having three other non-injured limbs if that’s the…

The response to what I said won’t show up for some reason, so I’ll just quote it.

"rather have someone who can run, without depth perception and with emotional qualms, than someone who has an equal amount of scary problems (Jane literally can’t trust people, has imprinted her dead sister all over clementine and has several times implied purposefully or no that she wants aj dead) and literally can’t run. from zombies."

As someone who decided to go with Jane, I can let you know that her leg was a non-issue, as evidenced by the “nine-days later” fade in. Also, you know what would probably heal faster than Kenny’s emotional avulsion? Jane’s actual physical wound.

Jane is someone who recognizes her faults, which shows at least some kind of minimal self-reflection. She can’t trust people, and by the end of the episode, I’ve decided that Clementine can’t trust people either. But they obviously trust each other, right? Kenny clearly couldn’t trust a lot of people, but you seem eager to test his trust with Clem, so why would she and Jane be any worse off? Because Jane “imprinted” her sister onto her? Yes, Jane had a younger sister that she misses, is it so hard to believe Clementine might remind her of her? I’m really asking, because you present it as a problem when Telltale doesn’t even bother to, and instead, lets you know without question that Kenny is losing it. There’s nothing to suggest her relationship with Clem is unhealthy (and no, telling Clem to watch out for herself at the expense of others in the apocalypse isn’t unhealthy. It’s cold as fuck, but it isn’t unhealthy).

As for her “wanting AJ dead,” I can’t even. When did she imply this? When Clem went to talk to Kenny and she said she’d watch him? When she held him, and told him her name in a sweet voice? When she clutched onto the kid for dear life when that truck plowed into the snow? Because if so I missed it.

this is gonna be disjointed i apologize in advance:

aj being one of my bigger issues: how about when she ran away because he was born. or in episode four when she asked “what are we goingg to do with it” and clementine was asking her what that meant (i forget exactly what clem said but the obvious implication was leave it to die, they might actually say that word for word?) how about when she left him alone in a car in a blizzard surrounded by zombies. how about when she ran into the room and nobody questioned she killed it not even clem. how about all of episode four and every depersonalizing pronoun she uses with him in episode five? (take it, it puked! it it it ititit)

and just because telltale chooses not to show her leg being an issue it doesnt mean in that moment you dont say ‘ok let jane die.’ another reason is bc clem still shouldnt have to kill anyone, and doesnt yet.
also kenny admits his faults?(ep five in the car, in the transformer lot, ep four in the tent ande evrywhere else) he just only does so to clementine bc he trusts her and i fail to see where jane ever did. clem doesnt trust jane, watch her facial expressions when she talks.

i think its generally unfair to ignore janes equally relevant issues to highlight kenny’s. they both suck, but i think janes brand of flightiness is worse than kenny’s outwardly directed anger (outward as in not at clem or aj) and whats gonna save you when ur surrounded by zombies? a rage machine or someone who runs to save their own skin.

this all being said i didn’t actually stay with kenny. i stayed at wellington. for aj.

NowTumblr wants to show me what I’m responding to.

Firstly, don’t apologize, what you’re saying is clear. 

Second, everything else. (Using Bold to separate things, make this less bloated)

All these questions you’re asking me; I don’t know, how about them? Are they supposed to refute what I said? 

You’re implying she ran away from the group in Ep. 4 just because some kid was born. How about her getting caught w/ Luke? How about her natural aversion to groups in the first place? How about the fact that she came back (and saved Kenny’s life, and by extension, the group’s, in the process)?  

About leaving AJ in the car: Yeah, could have ended badly I suppose, though I doubt she would have put him in there if she thought it wasn’t safe enough. Did you see any walkers during all that commotion?

The dehumanizing pronouns: Yeah, Jane clearly doesn’t have much experience with infants. The use of “it” was a way to show that. It still doesn’t make any of my examples of her kindness towards AJ any less valid.

The no one questioned she killed AJ thing: No one questions that something happened you mean. Kenny assumes she killed AJ because he clearly doesn’t trust her. Clem is confused and then shocked, but the dialogue you choose decides which way she leans in that one. 

The “what are we going to do with it” moment: maybe the strongest argument you have for this thing btw. Yeah, she was probably talking about leaving it. And then they didn’t. Go figure. 

Here’s the thing. I think this suggestion of yours, that she wants him dead, is misguided. That’s probably not what you meant, but it’s definitely terrible phrasing. 

Jane doesn’t want anyone dead and she indeed recognizes her faults. If that isn’t obvious from the way she helps the group by saving them or finding a space for Rebecca or showing regret when she killed that Russian dude or showing regret when you decide to let Arvo go or apologizing to Clem after the whole mess, then I don’t know what does. 

But onto your second paragraph.

"and just because telltale chooses not to show her leg being an issue it doesnt mean in that moment you dont say ‘ok let jane die.’"

I don’t quite understand what you’re saying here. I think you mean that just because I don’t think her leg is an issue, then that means I should let Kenny stab her? In any case, she wouldn’t have died, she would have been murdered, which is the word with the more appropriate connotation here. 

I agree with you that Clem shouldn’t have to kill anyone, but that isn’t a good enough reason to just let Kenny go around stabbing people in a fit of blind rage (pun in poor taste intended).

You speak of Clem not trusting Jane like it’s Telltale canon. Her facial expressions? Come on, son. Clementine is a character with her own thoughts and opinions, but the player ultimately decides on some of those thoughts and opinions. If #yourclementine didn’t trust Jane, cool, but #myclementine did, so it’s a moot point at best. 

And now your final paragraph.

It would be unfair (and might I add, irresponsible) to ignore Jane’s issues, so it’s a good thing I didn’t. I already addressed them in my first response, so if you want an answer, refer to that. As for the case of them being “equally relevant” to Kenny’s, I disagree. People admit to being unsure about Jane, yes, but pretty much everyone agrees that Kenny is just too broken to be helpful or around anymore. Mike and Bonnie try to steal the truck and leave because of him for Christ’s sake. 

And let’s not pretend Clem was just collateral damage when Kenny flipped out. He straight up accused her of thinking she could get away with things “just because [she was] a little girl.” He was in an emotional place, he didn’t mean it, he apologized I got it. But he still said the shit, and did shit similar to that afterwards. I have no question that he loves Clem or that he’s dedicated to protecting AJ, I just think he’s an asshole who’s proven himself less-than-fit to take care of either of them.

How many sentences should I dedicate to the rage machine or runner ultimatum? This previous one and the one right now saying the runner has proven time and time again (whether in the trailer park, or the woods, or the parking lot) that she would save Clem if surrounded by walkers? Yes.

…But anyway, yeah. In my rewind I stayed at Wellington too.